Episode 08: The Anesthesiologist Who Attained Financial Freedom At Age 40 w. Dr. Leif Dahleen aka Physician On Fire

Feb 15, 2019


This Episode

Interview w/ Dr. Leif Dahleen

You Will Learn

  • How does Leif recommend residents think about locums work earlier in their career?
  • What are the important considerations for pushing toward financial independence as a physician?
  • Leif’s personal philosophy on investing and cash flows which allowed him to retire at 40.
  • How financial strain relates to physician burnout.

Resources & Links

Show Notes

Dr. Leif Dahleen talks about how he reached financial independence in a decade and the factors that contributed to his success.  We discuss his time doing locums work for two years, financial mistakes, and the family roots and values that laid the groundwork for personal and financial wellbeing.  We also discuss the way he thinks about spending, saving and investing for his own family.

Show Transcript

Justin: [01:11] Hello everyone. Welcome to the Anesthesia Success Podcast. I’m your host Justin Harvey. Our guest this week is Dr. Leif Dahleen who was a board certified anesthesiologist based in the Midwest as well as a prolific finance blogger known on the interwebs as physician on fire where he pens physicianonfire.com. He reached financial independence after about 10 years of practicing anesthesia all while raising two boys and doing lots of travel with his family as a result of his financial independence. He recently switched to part time and anesthesia and he now invest more time with his family as he continues to work on his blog. Much of his writing focuses on physician financial education, investing in other issues commonly faced by physicians.
Justin: [01:42] Yeah. So tell me about how you kind of first got started in that. Was it something that you saw among some of your colleagues where you thought, I need to spread the word about being financially savvy as a physician or was there a catalyzing moment for you?
Dr. Dahleen: [02:24] Yeit was a, it wasn’t maybe one particular moment, but it sort of evolved from, once I was maybe five, six years into my career, I had been saving a lot of money and I at some point realized I was a millionaire at least based on our investments. And and I thought, okay, I got to do something, with, with this money. It was invested but maybe not in the most efficient way, not the most tax efficient. Certainly. And I discovered a few different sites around the same time. One talked about vanguard, and index fund investing and keeping it simple and, and how that can do as well or better than a, you know, actively trying to chase the best returns. And I had been doing that to some extent, but I realized I could save significant money with fees if I switched from a lot of the T Rowe Price active funds.
Dr. Dahleen: [03:21] I was invested into plain old boring vanguard index funds. I also discovered, yeI discovered the other white coat investor who was very active on that forum. He had over 10,000 posts, probably over 20,000 by now. And his website a really taught me a lot. It was neat to see another doctor writing and talking about this stuff. And then a third site was Mr money mustache who is the most popular and internet famous financial independence blogger. And he talked about how you can make your money last, more or less indefinitely once you get to a certain point of, you know, 25 times or more, your annual spending. So if you work on that spending side and you work on a building up, big nest egg worked becomes optional. I thought that was pretty amazing and hadn’t really considered that and I put it all together in my head and I did realize like I wanted to start financial independence blog from the perspective of a higher income professional.
Justin: [04:26] great. YeI know. So obviously as a physician, as an anesthesiologist in particular, one of the higher earning specialties, there are certain tailwinds that you get certain things that help you. Obviously you’re moving towards financial independence. If you have a high income, it’s a lot easier. But there’s definitely some headwinds, right? Culturally, your peer group, your coworkers, there are certain cultural expectations that you have to jettison a and swim upstream in some regards to be able to make progress towards financial independence. So how did you interact with that idea as a physician?
Dr. Dahleen: [04:56] No, you’re right, there are definitely a, you know, there’s a societal image of, of what a physician should be living like in what their house should look like. And to some extent I have those visions to, and you know, early on once I did settle down in one place, we built a really nice home on the water and, and that, you know, ended up being a mistake. That hospital went bankrupt a few months later or I’m sorry, a few years later, I got another a few months, but, it didn’t last nearly as long as we thought it would. And so the dream house became a bit of a nightmare when there weren’t any doctors to sell a really nice home two anymore in a small town. Yeah. So, yeI had some, some headwinds there, but in general, I’ve kind of been a guy that does his own thing and so I didn’t feel any real pressure to have a really nice vehicle and then take the most expensive vacation and Instagram wasn’t a thing back then. You know, people posting pictures of wherever they are in the world. I still traveled a lot. We just, you know, did it, at the three star replaces not the five star anyway. yeah. So, my wife too, you know, she is not a one that likes to waste money. We spend intentionally and it’s just kind of work.
Justin: [06:07] No, I want to come back to that point about collaborating with your spouse in a moment. But first I’d love to hear about sort of your journey to financial independence in the context of your medical career. So maybe take us through training and your first role or two as an attending some of the inflection points there and and how your career dovetailed with your, sort of financial convictions.
Dr. Dahleen: [06:28] Sure. Yeah. I did my training in Gainesville, Florida at the University of Florida, which was a college town and fairly low cost of living area and actually bought a condo there that we kept for about five years after we left. And we had rented it out. It wasn’t a great investment, but it did well enough and I got really good training and I felt comfortable coming out of there going just about anywhere. And so I did locums for two years out of residency. And a, that was a really good way for me to not only see a variety of different practice types, do some hands on anesthesia, do some supervising work in government facilities as at the VA for nine months in Pittsburgh and work at smaller community hospitals too. So I kind of ran the gamut for two years until we found a spot that made sense for us to settle down close to my wife’s family.
Dr. Dahleen: [07:17] We also were able to live really inexpensive because the locum agencies that I was working with, they pay for your, housing. They will provide you with a rental car. Some of them even gave it per diem for meals. So our living expenses were next to nothing. And of course I was making four figures a day when I showed up to work. So, we, we, we banked a lot of money those first couple of years enough to, you know, by the waterfront lot and put some money towards the house we were building. So that’s the beginning. then I said all of them do a fulltime job, found a different full time job when that one fell apart. but eventually I realized, like I said, I had seven figures in our investments and, once you have that in your money, you know, in some years works as hard as you, you know, I think it was a three or four years ago, we saw 30% plus returns around the year. so I’ll bet my money and made more money for me then I did work as an anesthesiologist. Now 2018 is not quite as, it’s good in that regard.
Justin: [08:22] Great. So you touched on something I want to circle back to you. You mentioned locums, for a young physician or resident or fellow who’s considering, you know, wanting to maybe travel around, see some different practice styles and opportunities. It sounds like you would recommend something like that as far as, a good way to do that.
Dr. Dahleen: [08:46] You can pretty easily be plugged into any system. It’s an maybe a little bit more tricky with computer, electronic health and that maybe you need a a day or two of training. That wasn’t an issue 10 years ago, 12 years ago when I did it. But yeit’s really a nice way to see what different places are like and you know, a lot of those places that need short term help, what they really need as longterm help, but they’ll take what they can get. And so it might be more like a working interview, whether you realize it or not. And most of the places, and I put, I took anywhere from a one week job to a three week job to a nine month job. and they were all interested in having me stay on a longer or perhaps permanently you had, depending on the situation. So you might just find yourself a really good job and have an opportunity to know everyone you’re going to work with.
Justin: [09:47] Yeah. Did you find that as a locum physician there were any unique challenges or, I’m thinking specifically, you know, having like community with your coworkers, having friends at work. What was it isolating at all?
Dr. Dahleen: [09:57] I think it was the opposite in some ways because you’re the one new guy, right? You know, and so you stand out and then people are interested in knowing how you got to be in this little town at age 30 doing this job. And so I got to meet a lot of people and made some really good friends in our travels. And I still keep in touch with some of the docs I work with today even though I haven’t maybe seen them in person in 10 years. So yeI don’t think that’s much of an issue and there’s a good side to, to being a little bit distant in some ways. At least when it comes to the politics of the place, you know, the expectations of you are not the same as the expectations of a full time permanent employee. So you know, you’re not going to be asked to do a whole lot more than the clinical work that you’re being paid to do.
Justin: [10:47] So you mentioned that you and your wife are, it sounds like of one accord, or at least you’ve gotten a lot of, you’ve communicated well over the years with regards to money and have developed a common vision. I’m curious in the context of pursuing financial independence, how has that played out for you guys? Have you always been eye to eye on that and, and supported one another in that? Or did one have to kind of get the other on board as far as, you know, moving towards being free of full time employment?
Dr. Dahleen: [11:14] You know, the way it happened for us, I figured I’d probably work at least until our kids were out of the how. It’s and that’s, not for another 10 years or so for me right now. And financial independence. When I actually learned the term and the math behind it, I realized that we pretty much had it. all we needed was a to free up the kind of illiquid assets in our house that we built on the water. And once that sold a few months after, maybe a year after, I learned about this whole concept, then we really have that 25 times our spending right then and there. And so it was really at the point that I could say we’re financially independent that I told my wife, hey, by the way, I don’t have to go to work. She’s like, no, yeI see you on the schedule. I’m like, well, yeI know I’m going to, but we really don’t have to, you know, that’s where we’re, we’re at a place where this is a looking optional and I didn’t necessarily want to be locked into the current budget and they had some charitable aspirations and wasn’t a mentally prepared to walk away from a career that actually I enjoy at least parts of it. So it’s been really about four years since that first conversation. maybe three or four and I’ll be leaving my current gig nine months, eight months from now.
Justin: [12:34] Awesome. Congratulations. So if we, if we trace the full timeline just for listeners who aren’t as familiar with your story, you, you went to training obviously in Florida and then you took a first roles and attending where you around like late twenties or thirties, early thirties at this point? I finished residency at age 30. Okay, so 30 years old. You’re doing locums for two years and then you’re practicing full time at, at different practices, for another eight ish years. Is that about right? Eight or nine. Yethat’s about right. It was about 10 years. Okay. So, so age 40 as a practicing anesthesiologist, you, you have this epiphany one day it was like, hey babe, like I, I were there that that must’ve been outside. It goes September and I turned 40 in November. So you kind of, it sounds like you stumbled into this.
Dr. Dahleen: [13:21] And I heard on one of the other podcasts interviews you did recently talking about your family background and the way that your, it sounds like your dad is a dentist even though he earned a good living, was able to, and your mom as well raise you guys in a way that, that allowed you to accidentally realize as a 40 year old anesthesiologist, you know, we, we have a lifestyle such that we’ve saved enough, we’ve been frugal enough, we’ve been wise with our expenses and we’ve earned enough to be able to not need to rely on money anymore. Talk a little bit about your background and your family and the way that that’s played into this journey for you.
Dr. Dahleen: [13:54] Sure. Yeah. Like you mentioned my, My dad was a dentist and his dad was a dentist and my brother talked about being a dentist and so I went a little different route. But yeso growing up, you know, I, he made a good enough living where we probably could have looked and acted a little more wealthy than we were. But it’s really not, not how we live. My Dad had a blue collar friends. We went shopping at garage sales and thrift stores and we’d check out the scratch and dent at best buy. You know, we didn’t pay full price for anything. That was kind of the way it worked. You know, even our vacations. I know when we finally got to go to Disneyworld and I was 14 or 15 we did a fly drive deal because in the spring the rental car companies want to get their cars up north. And so we flew from Minnesota to Orlando and then drove the car back for you know, probably half the price of a round trip. It’s a real family bonding experience there. Sounds like. And I’m not saying I’m look, oh it’s so rough. We had to drive from Florida after going to Disney world, but you know, they were always looking for ways to make their dollar stretch a bit further. And I grew up with that as a, a, a value in my life. So we try not to pay retail for much of anything.
Justin: [15:09] Yeah. And you, you told this other story that I really resonated with cause I literally had an identical experience where I as a child, my dad gave us these three little jars. With these three I can still picture them with three little black lids and duct tape around them and one says save, one says give and one says spend and it’s this, you know, early on I remember I’d get $3 a week for an allowance and I put $1 in each jar and a, it sounds like early on they were cultivating in you this healthy respect for and ability to handle money.
Dr. Dahleen: [15:39] Yup. I got an allowance from, I dunno, probably more first grade and yethe jars. That’s exactly what we do. I got it from the book, the opposite of spoiled. I don’t recall the author’s name at the moment, but yehe talked about that idea. And so we did that with our kids. A dollar in each jar and they can spend one of those dollars, but they can save some of those dollars. And then we have them give to a charity of their choice. At the end of the year. and then with the saving money, we give them 1% interest on any money that they haven’t spent over the years. And that includes gifts from Christmas and birthdays and first communion and anything else where people have written checks. And so, you know, they’re, they’re getting to the point where they’re close to a thousand dollars in their account and every month they get 1% so that 800 is now eight oh eight then becomes eight 16 and Jane, you said every month they get 1% oh, that’s every month and get 1% rate rate of return. So I’m like, because you didn’t touch your money this month, here’s $8.
Justin: [16:41] that’s a great strategy. Yeah. Something, my wife and I talk about, you know, when, when we have kids, it’s like how do we, how to raise kids without being spoiled and to have a healthy respect for money in a context when, you know, we’re, we’re going to be a high income earning couple trying to raise kids in that way. And I’m sure that’s a real challenge, right? But it seems like you guys have managed it really well.
Dr. Dahleen: [17:01] Talking about money is important. You know, it’s a, it shouldn’t be a taboo topic, especially within the family. We tell them, don’t repeat this conversations we have, but we tell them what things costs. You know, when we travel and we traveled with him quite a bit and we let them know, well this is what the plane ticket costs. While this rental car also costs money, it was this much, the hotel, it’s free tonight because we used a certain credit card, but if we were paying and like we’re going to pay for the Airbnb, you know, next week it’s $138 per day. So, they, you know, seed the cost of not just the groceries that we eat, but also the cost of the electricity and that we buy and, and everything else so that there’s really no, no big surprises for them. And they understand that pretty much everything we do in life darn near costs money in one way or another, whether it’s, it’s because we pay taxes or it’s a, you know, x amount of dollars. Yeah.
Justin: [17:54] so I want to pivot back to the career questions for a moment and I know one of the challenges that young physicians face and anesthesia specifically is, not having the information to ask good questions when you’re vetting perspective employers to, to understand the details of compensation and the details of job description. And I’m curious, it sounds like you had a handful, I mean, in addition to your locums experiences where you were seeing different work environments, you also moved to a few different full time roles in, in the eight year period. You weren’t an attending before reaching financial independence. So I’m curious at those decision points, when you were taking those jobs, did you find that you had adequate information or that you were well informed about what a weighted you or where are you finding that, oh man, I’m three months in and I didn’t realize the call schedule meant this and I didn’t realize the comp model was that and it didn’t understand the implications of those things.
Dr. Dahleen: [18:43] I think people were pretty transparent with me and I didn’t know which questions to ask. I certainly want to know what my schedule is going to be before deciding on a job. And so yeI think I had those things pretty well figured out and I should go back and explain it. I guess I did already talk about one place going bankrupt and the hospital closing. That’s why I had to find it second full time job. And we did that. What kind of short notice and the places we really wanted to be didn’t have openings. And so we were a couple of years, a little bit out west and it was a good place but not the best place for us. And when a job opened up close to family in northern Minnesota, we jumped on that opportunity. So I’ve had three, you know, quote unquote permanent fulltime jobs, which was certainly not by design, but that’s just the way things work out sometimes.
Dr. Dahleen: [19:35] But yeas far as getting those questions answered, no. The docs and the, administrators that I’ve talked to have been, had been helpful, so I didn’t really feel like I had any surprises. It also helped that work with opens at two of the three jobs where it took a permanent job. My first one, I had been a locum for months and months before I agreed to come back. And my current job I took in January of 2014 I interviewed in 2013. but I’ve worked there in 2007 as a locum way back when. So I already knew the chief and they knew me and I said, hey, I’m looking for a job. I see you have an opening that, you know, and it was almost a formality when we went through the interview. So I knew what to expect when I was coming here too.
Justin: [20:19] Have you perceived over time as you’ve seen, you know, different geographic locales and been, in practicing medicine for, you know, 15 plus years now that, financial literacy among physicians has changed and perhaps improved? Because I think we’re in what I would call the golden age of financial information. It’s so accessible, but sometimes it’s hard to quiet the noise and discern the reliable sources of information at times.
Dr. Dahleen: [20:43] Yeyou’re absolutely right. There are a number of excellent websites. . And when I finished residency in 2006, there was zero. All right. And I know wealthy doc came along maybe in 2007 or eight, the white coat investor, 2011. and even when I started, just not even three years ago, there were probably five, maybe six. doctors doing this. So not even 10% of what there is now a less than three years later. So it’s great. There’s so much information. There are Facebook groups, there are forums or websites, there are articles coming out every day to kind of help other physicians learn from other physicians.
Dr. Dahleen: [21:44] And when I, when I used to read about personal finance stuff, it was pretty much like USA today money section, money magazine Market Watch. That probably wasn’t even around back then. But yeso it’s, yeyou’d read money magazine. It’s hard to know what’s really pertinent to your situation, whereas you read what other doctors are doing, you know, you ask the questions in the Facebook group or a local investor forum and you’re getting other doctors telling you, well, here’s what you ought to do. Here’s what you should know. Here are some resources to help you.
Justin: [22:16] Yeah. And it’s interesting, you know, I’m sure doctors may look at you and think, wow, he’s, this guy’s made it. He’s done it. Right. He’s figured it out. I’m curious how you, how you would react to that and maybe let us in on a little bit of what your investment philosophy or cashflow philosophy is that has landed you in this place, which you currently find yourself.
Dr. Dahleen: [22:37] I think a lot of doctors probably look at me and then they’d say, oh, he’s, he’s doing it all wrong. He doesn’t even spend six figures a year. Right. What kind of life is that? And I said, that’s a great light. We spend, I don’t know, 10, 12 weeks a year traveling and buy everything we care to have and living in Iceland and Nice House on the Mississippi River right now. So what I’ve done, I mentioned it maybe briefly with talk about the bullheads and that, but I’m invested in pretty simple passive index funds. I have a little bit of slicing and dicing and tilting where I have maybe a little more small cap value stocks and emerging market stocks. Then, they represent in total cap weight of the market. But, and I don’t think that stuff really matters much. The key really has been, I’m just saving a lot more than the average physician.
Dr. Dahleen: [23:25] So I would guess on average I’ve probably invested more money than it’s been since I finished the training. And so living on half or less of what you bring in is going to get you to financial independence pretty quickly almost regardless of what you invest in. As long as you don’t do anything like, you know, really risky like everything in bitcoin a year ago for example. But whether you get 0% or 5% or 15% over 10 years, it doesn’t make a huge difference, right? Over a lifetime it will. But when most of your net worth is coming from what you put in and what you’re earning, the returns don’t matter quite as much over the relatively short to medium. Absolutely agree. I’m glad to hear you say that. I think one of the challenges for young physicians, especially as controlling the cash flow, especially at the outset when all of their peers are coming into these paychecks that were five or six times bigger than anything you’ve ever seen, and being able to continue at least for a little while to delay gratification the way that they’ve done in many cases for a decade longer than their peers already, but preserving that cashflow and funneling it in a productive direction to do exactly what you just described.
Dr. Dahleen: [24:38] Lay a solid financial foundation for the future. I don’t think I appreciate quite how much doing locums really did help me in that regard because I didn’t have anything I couldn’t spend money on. Our only home for most of that period was actually my one bedroom condo in Gainesville and that was rented out. And so we had our stuff in storage and I couldn’t buy anything. I guess I could have bought a car, but we were getting a rental and they were for, we went. So yeah. And so I just got into that habit of getting a paycheck, depositing it, getting a paycheck, depositing it, and spending a little bit of money on travel in between jobs and you know, checking out restaurants wherever we’re at. But it really probably got me into the mindset and in that context in and doing a lot of this blocking and tackling right for a long time.
Justin: [25:25] And just rinse and repeat. How much time would you say right now you spend thinking about your investment portfolio? Do you work with a financial planner leaf
Dr. Dahleen: [26:07] I do not. Well, most people are not going to have the time or interest. You kind of have to have both to really read a few books and read the blogs and listen to the podcast and kind of get a good grip on what you have. And that can somewhat slowly, it can happen over the course of months probably to get enough knowledge if you have the interest and time to do so to manage your own investments. But you’re probably gonna make some mistakes. Hopefully they’re small and hopefully it can be fixed pretty easily. And so it just depends. If you have no interest in figuring this stuff out, I would recommend working with a good fiduciary fee only advisor. And how do you find them? That’s a good question. I mean, I’ve got a list of recommended advisers on my site.
Dr. Dahleen: [27:21] You’re obviously an advisor and I’m sure you can recommend some sites to do the FINRA background. Check on people, make sure they haven’t gotten in trouble in the past and, and look at the fees, make sure the fees are easy to find on the website, or you can request them and see exactly where the money will go, how you’re being charged and what you’re actually getting for the money that you spent. Because in the beginning, when you don’t have a whole lot of assets, so you have less than 500,000 or a million dollars to your name and then 1% of your assets that you might pay to an advisor that’s, you know, under $10,000 a year. But once you become financially independent and maybe you have two or $3 million, if you’re paying 1% per year, now you’re spending 20 or $30,000 per year for that same financial planning. And at this point it may be almost on autopilot. So that’s maybe not a good idea.
Justin: [28:15] I’m interested, you know, your observations in the context of the generation of physicians coming in behind you who, you know, burnout is obviously a very popular topic in the medical community right now. How do you perceive that financial laying a solid financial foundation helps to address some of the stresses and the anxiety and the burnout that is facing different parts of the medical community?
Dr. Dahleen: [28:40] Yethat’s a great question, Justin. And I think that there is a real connection between your approach to money and, becoming burned out in B. You know, rescuing yourself from burnout, that if you are in a position where you’re feeling stuck in your job and it’s been something you loved five near years ago and a year ago you tolerated it and now it’s just too much, but your lifestyle demands that you continue to make that same income. You know, you’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. And if you can get yourself, and it doesn’t have to be full financial independence, but just enough financial runway where you can afford to take a sabbatical without pay for a year or six months and try to get things right and then come back and work in the way that you want. That’s certainly helpful. you know, once you become closer to financially independent, once you know that, you can live without this income for quite a long time, then you can start to cut out some of the things bother you the most.
Dr. Dahleen: [29:42] Now it will depend on what specialty you are in, what job you have, but maybe you can stop taking call or take less call. Maybe you can say, I’m not going to take cardiac cases or the transplants anymore. If you’re in an academic center and a, you know, there are a lot of different ways, you know, maybe you find a new job at an outpatient surgical center. Again, talking anesthesia here. If you’re an orthopedist, maybe you don’t want to do the total joints anymore. Maybe if you’re a general surgeon, no more vascular, no more thoracic cases, that kind of thing. So you might have a better, better angle to craft the job you want and you also have some leverage when you say, well, if you say no, I can walk away. If you don’t have any money saved up and you’re spending them as much as you’re earning or close to it, then you don’t have much leverage because if someone says, no, you can’t take that sabbatical. You have to keep doing these cases, you’re going to take the same calls everyone else, you’d have to say, okay,
Justin: [30:40] I’ll do that. Yethat makes sense. Have you seen any of your colleagues or other physicians that you know who you’ve seen maybe struggling with burnout? In a way that is attached to financial decisions or maybe debt that has been overwhelming for them.
Dr. Dahleen: [30:52] I’ve seen doctors that are in their sixties and seventies and can’t retire that that happens. You know, maybe they’ve been through a divorce or two and there are some other extenuating circumstances. And you mentioned debt of course student loan debt, the average is 200,000. It’s not unusual to see three or 400,000 if someone went through private schools. And so that can really get you into pilots. You have big deep hole to dig out of. And hopefully you find a job that you love where you can make some good money and make real progress towards eliminating those early in your career so they don’t hang over you like a mortgage for 25, 30 years or get them forgiven via the public service loan forgiveness. A option which more and more physicians are, are able to take advantage of with, you know, so many of us being employed by quote unquote not for profit hospitals.
Justin: [31:45] So, I want to wrap things up here, and in closing, I’m curious to hear your answer to my final question here, which is being a physician and an anesthesiologist, particularly, it’s a very demanding profession that requires a lot of sacrifice. So I’d love to hear a story reflecting on one of your proudest moments as a physician that’s made you glad that you’ve put in all the time and effort. Feel free to answer this too, with regards to your blog and the time and effort that you’ve put in to sharing financial insights with the medical community and how you’ve seen that pay dividends in the lives of others.
Dr. Dahleen: [32:16] Sure. yein regards to the blog and you’ll get a lot of emails and messages just thank you so much. You really helped us figure out where we want to go, you know, the next direction in our lives and we’re making these big changes and that’s really rewarding. But as a physician, I finally took part in a surgical mission trip, in Honduras in May of last year and a worked hard early morning till, you know, after dinnertime most days. But we did some great work for people that otherwise would have nowhere to turn. And I was able to bring my family along with me and they volunteered, both at the little surgical center that we were at end on the children’s home where this facility is located, where several hundred children are actually raised a and we heard many great stories and helped a lot of people and it felt really good to, use my skills to do something other than just make money here in the states. So we’re actually going back again in May of 2019 to help out at the same facility, which is a via group called one world surgery at NPH Honduras. So I highly recommend it if you, doctors out there have not done any sort of a humanitarian work that’s a great organization to, go out and do something. Awesome.
Justin: [33:41] Thanks for those thoughts, Dr. Leaf Dahleen. Thank you very much for joining us today on the anesthesia success podcast.
Dr. Dahleen: [33:47] Thank you for having me, Justin. It’s been a great chat.
Justin: [33:51] Hey Justin here. This may shock you to learn, but I am actually not a fulltime podcast. I also run a financial planning company called quantifi planning, where I work closely with anesthesia and pain docs to build and implement customized financial plans. If you’re interested in working with a financial planner who knows many of the ins and outs of your profession, shoot me an email or head on over to quantifi planning.com for more information. If you’re a resident or fellow, I can also offer you a free student loan analysis if you’re interested, but there might be a waiting list, so check out the link over there to see if you’re interested in learning more about the topics we discussed today. Head over to anesthesia, success.com to join our community of residents and attendings and others to ask a question or get more free resources. If and only if you liked this episode, please leave us a review and subscribe. Thank you very much for listening to the Anesthesia Success Podcast.

Show produced By: Dan Gummel & Justin Harvey

Show Music: Great Scott:  Don’t Hold Back